Curse

Aniewiel · Jul 14, 2005, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dax

...and back to the topic lol

Which is one of the problems with expecting constant explanations- If they say one thing and make a change which might seem contradictory to a previous comment, you get into the whole "What happened? "You promised us this or that" senario. Some changes are for reasons we don't need to know the gory details about.

Agreed.

That's why a roadmap of where they'd like to END UP might be nice....we don't need to see all the bumps and curves in the road. But a general idea would be appreciated.

Nothing they give us is required. But sometimes just doing it for doing its sake is nice.

Chev of Hardass · Jul 14, 2005, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aniewiel

Agreed.

That's why a roadmap of where they'd like to END UP might be nice....we don't need to see all the bumps and curves in the road. But a general idea would be appreciated.

Nothing they give us is required. But sometimes just doing it for doing its sake is nice.

Unfortunately I see a destination as not being known, but were we are when we get there. If the Devs knew what would make the game perfect, they would have done it. Which brings up the idea of feedback, but I digress.

We should be happy with some idea of what side of the road we are on though.

WeiPing · Jul 14, 2005, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damon Windwalker

Then why put in items that you can only get by farming (such as fissure armor)?

I imagine fissure armor is meant only for accounts with several players who have all played up to level 20.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ba Ne

I hope you understand that your post is merely your opinion, which you are free to express of course. Just realize that not everyone, including myself, agrees with you and that your opinion, or mine, is not by any means the Tome of Truth.

If you honestly think that farming is fun, then I pity you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna

Quite frankly, the game is built around skills. Since there are 450 of them it takes grind to get 'em all. If they didn't want grind they should have created a different unlocking system rather than nerfing farming spots.

You can only have 8 skills at a time. You don't need all 450 skills. If you have a desire to collect 450 skills even though you can only use 8 at a time, then you're welcome to do so, but don't call that a "grind". That's you wanting to have everything, and having everything wouldn't be nearly as enjoyable if it weren't a challenge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funbun

If everyone's skill is equal than that small difference may spell the difference between winning and losing. Athletes spend uber amounts of money just to gain fractions of a second. Cause that's all it takes to win.

This doesn't have anything to do with farming.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funbun

Wealth doesn't matter? How do you plan to buy 60k guild hall? After 300 hours of game play, building wealth in the game is the only fun thing left to do. Now that they've nerfed everything I can't even do that. Thus GW is no longer fun.

A 60k guild hall is not supposed to be purchased by a single individual, it's supposed to be purchased by a GUILD. In order to have any value at all, a guild with at least 8 members who are all level 20. Which equates to 7.5k each. Is that so unreasonable?

If you don't get joy out of replaying GW, then so be it. Certainly ArenaNet can't please everyone all of the time, but by reducing the need to farm they're keeping the activity away from the average player, and MOST people are bored to tears by killing the same old mobs over and over and over and over again.

It seems to be apparent that not everyone fits this category, and if you happen to enjoy such a mind-numbing process, then indeed...it must really suck to be you, for reasons completely independant of the lack of game induced motivation for farming.

funbun · Jul 14, 2005, 08:53 PM // 20:53

So reducing the need to farm means make everyone suffer by not letting anyone have max lvl weapons? As opposed to letting every get the max items more easily?

GW shouldn't force me into playing the game one or 2 ways. I should have the freedom to play any way I want. As long as I'm not cheat by using bots or something like that. If a player wants 100k just for the fun of it then be it so. GW is just forcing us into one mode of play: grind the storyline over and over.

I'm out. GW a pissed in my face for the last time.

WeiPing · Jul 14, 2005, 09:07 PM // 21:07

GW isn't "forcing" anything upon you, they're just trying to make the most fun way of playing the most effective way of playing. Which is exactly what they said they were doing, and I think it's smart of them to do it.

You can still kill the same old mobs 100 times in a row if you want. They just don't want to encourage that type of playing by letting the people who have nothing better to do than just that get all the best loot.

What you call "grind", I call "the game". What you call "farm", I call "grind".

Aniewiel · Jul 14, 2005, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Straying slightly off topic again:

I think that what some people miss is that you don't have to have MAX damage anything. You WANT max damage things but they aren't really all that necessary. Is there that huge of a difference between a bow that does, say, 26 max damage and one that does 28 (in the big picture in PvE)? What about a sword that does 21 instead of 22 max damage?

People are always on this kick that they have to have MAX MAX MAX...max damage, max gold, max armor class, max skills unlocked. THAT'S what's making your game boring.

Now

BACK TO THE TOPIC PLEASE

Aniewiel · Jul 14, 2005, 09:11 PM // 21:11

A reminder of the topic:

Quote:

With this latest update, many people claim utter joy and others decry the "nerfing" of farming areas. I can't imagine the consternation over at Arena Net. No matter -what- they do, how they do it, when they do it and, probably most importantly, why they do it, they are harrangued. It's the old "damned if you do, damned if you don't routine".

So what would help? Is it the WHY of things that is missing here? I think everyone can live with the what, how and when of ANet's updates. But it is the why that seems to be confusing/upsetting to everyone.

If Gaile, or some other ANet representative came on here and gave a "This is why we did it" statement, would it help? Or would it simply be another avenue to berate their update?

I do think it in ANet's best interests to put out some sort of statement with every update. Just a list of changes/patches/bug fixes/enhancements isn't enough, it seems.

I am genuinely curious as to what it is that they can do to help this situation...besides "unnerf" the farming areas?

Please leave reasonable suggestions and/or wish lists for what you'd like to HEAR from ANet.

WeiPing · Jul 14, 2005, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Here's the Why, straight off the Guild Wars update page if you don't trust my translation.

Quote:

We know that some players currently engage in repetitive farming activities for the primary purpose of unlocking skills and items for PvP. Rather than preserving the effectiveness of farming for this purpose, it is our intention to address the larger issue of the need for farming by assessing how players acquire and unlock items, runes, and skills, and then by taking steps to ensure that players can acquire and unlock these things through normal gameplay. We believe that the most effective way to play the game should also be the most fun way to play the game.

funbun · Jul 14, 2005, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeiPing

GW isn't "forcing" anything upon you, they're just trying to make the most fun way of playing the most effective way of playing. Which is exactly what they said they were doing, and I think it's smart of them to do it.

You can still kill the same old mobs 100 times in a row if you want. They just don't want to encourage that type of playing by letting the people who have nothing better to do than just that get all the best loot.

What you call "grind", I call "the game". What you call "farm", I call "grind".

Where did you get the concept that I grind the game? I make money by teach monks how to beat thier monk mirror. I'm building a W/Mo to start an escort business.

Farming used to be easy: 5 minutes in Emberlight Camp, you'd have all the weapons you need to either sell or start a character based on those weapons. Now that they've nerfed the game those 5 minute runs are now 50 hour runs. I'm not going to do that.

Besides, I'm the one who decides what is the most fun way to play. Not Area net.

You call a 5 minute run to get some item a grind? DUDE

Evan montegarde · Jul 14, 2005, 09:16 PM // 21:16

That's the problem...It's not enjoyable for many to engage in repetitive grinding activities of PVP, like random arena. Team arena is fun with your guild mates, but what about when they're not avalible? Not everyone does GVG and apparantly Anet doesn't realize this.

funbun · Jul 14, 2005, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evan montegarde

That's the problem...It's not enjoyable for many to engage in repetitive grinding activities of PVP, like random arena. Team arena is fun with your guild mates, but what about when they're not avalible? Not everyone does GVG and apparantly Anet doesn't realize this.

Exactly my point.

WeiPing · Jul 14, 2005, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by funbun

Where did you get the concept that I grind the game? I make money by teach monks how to beat thier monk mirror. I'm building a W/Mo to start an escort business.

You talk about farming. Farming, to me, = grinding. Even if you're just talking about a 5 minute farming run, I consider it grinding...even if it's only 5 minutes of grinding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by funbun

Besides I'm this one who decides what is the most fun way to play the gam no Area net.

And you're welcome to do so. If you have fun by killing the same mobs over and over again ArenaNet has made no attempt to stop you. They've just made the activity less desireable, which is smart. Boring gameplay shouldn't be desireable...it turns gaming into work. I don't want to feel like I have to "work" in order to play a game. I play games to get away from "work".

Aniewiel · Jul 14, 2005, 09:23 PM // 21:23

*looks around for Principa*

I suspect that this topic, since you will NOT stick to it, has reached the end of its usefulness.

funbun · Jul 14, 2005, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeiPing

You talk about farming. Farming, to me, = grinding. Even if you're just talking about a 5 minute farming run, I consider it grinding...even if it's only 5 minutes of grinding.

And you're welcome to do so. If you have fun by killing the same mobs over and over again ArenaNet has made no attempt to stop you. They've just made the activity less desireable, which is smart. Boring gameplay shouldn't be desireable...it turns gaming into work. I don't want to feel like I have to "work" in order to play a game. I play games to get away from "work".

Have you beaten the game yet? How many characters are you running? I'm on my 4th character. If you play through the game 4 times you're killing the same mobs over and over. There is no difference. Your argument holds no water.

Playing through the storyline 4 times IS boring. Playing through the story line 4 times IS work. It's not getting away from work. That's my point.

Grinding = lots of time your definitions are screwed. 5 minutes is not a grind.

I'm in it for the econimic system. Not the PvE or the PvP. I'm in it for the EvE (Enviorment v Economy).

WeiPing · Jul 14, 2005, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by funbun

Have you beaten the game yet? How many characters are you running?

I've got four characters.

Wei Ping = El/Mo that's finished the last mission.
Flea Ping = Wa/Ra that just finished the last mission last night.
Li Ping = Mo/Ra, made it as far as the Ember Light Camp.
Pei Ping = Ne/Me, only at Beacon's Perch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by funbun

Grinding = lots of time

I'm inclined to disagree with you there. The amount of time doesn't make the grind, because if that were the case than doing ANYTHING lot could be considered a "grind" regardless of how enjoyable it was.

Quote:

Originally Posted by funbun

I'm in it for the econimic system.

If you want to play a game for the economic system, then you've picked a pretty poor game to do it in. Might as well fill your pockets with money, only using Iraqi Dinar.

funbun · Jul 14, 2005, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Then, we disagee. And that's fine.

Peace.

By the way I think I've been getting too stress out over this thing.

I've decided to give this game a try. It seems to be more of what I want.

http://www.eve-online.com

Pandora's box · Jul 14, 2005, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Annewiel, whats the use of a discussion if everyone who shows objections against pvp updates will be removed?

Anet should make clear what they want? there was a simular discussion some time ago about pvp vs pve. My reaction than was: Anet does not need to make a choice between them. Now I changed my mind...

The last month shows Anet is trying to get everyone to pvp. At the other hand we have a situation where many ex-diablo II players hope GW pve will get more D2 elements. This is the main, if not the only fact why a huge amount of players more and more complain about the game. These are no players who want to play an easy game, cheat or grint. These are players who simply want fun on their own, withhout the need to party every time. And the advertisements before the game was released told us this was no problem... So YES! Anet should come out now and tell honestly what they want with PvE...

Loviatar · Jul 14, 2005, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by funbun

I've decided to give this game a try. It seems to be more of what I want.

http://www.eve-online.com

with all sincerity i hope it is so enjoyable it makes you forget about here;

simply wish you happiness in your new game

WeiPing · Jul 14, 2005, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

The last month shows Anet is trying to get everyone to pvp.

Um....that's funny, I haven't seen any indication of that at all.

Aniewiel · Jul 14, 2005, 10:44 PM // 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

Annewiel, whats the use of a discussion if everyone who shows objections against pvp updates will be removed?

Anet should make clear what they want? there was a simular discussion some time ago about pvp vs pve. My reaction than was: Anet does not need to make a choice between them. Now I changed my mind...

The last month shows Anet is trying to get everyone to pvp. At the other hand we have a situation where many ex-diablo II players hope GW pve will get more D2 elements. This is the main, if not the only fact why a huge amount of players more and more complain about the game. These are no players who want to play an easy game, cheat or grint. These are players who simply want fun on their own, withhout the need to party every time. And the advertisements before the game was released told us this was no problem... So YES! Anet should come out now and tell honestly what they want with PvE...

I have no objection to discussion of -any- element of the game and the update. But this is the original post:

Quote:

With this latest update, many people claim utter joy and others decry the "nerfing" of farming areas. I can't imagine the consternation over at Arena Net. No matter -what- they do, how they do it, when they do it and, probably most importantly, why they do it, they are harrangued. It's the old "damned if you do, damned if you don't routine".

So what would help? Is it the WHY of things that is missing here? I think everyone can live with the what, how and when of ANet's updates. But it is the why that seems to be confusing/upsetting to everyone.

If Gaile, or some other ANet representative came on here and gave a "This is why we did it" statement, would it help? Or would it simply be another avenue to berate their update?

I do think it in ANet's best interests to put out some sort of statement with every update. Just a list of changes/patches/bug fixes/enhancements isn't enough, it seems.

I am genuinely curious as to what it is that they can do to help this situation...besides "unnerf" the farming areas?

Please leave reasonable suggestions and/or wish lists for what you'd like to HEAR from ANet.

The purpose of the post was to just find out what it is people wanted ANet to do outside of listing the things they've added/fixed in any given update in terms of COMMUNICATION, not in terms of "what I'd rather see" or "what PvPers want" or "what PvEers want".

When I jokingly referred to Principa it was more because he said he'd lock the thread if it got off topic which it glaringly has. I KNOW he wasn't threatening to remove posts.